JOE PHAAHLA

Q&A with Chris Barron

Health minister JOE PHAAHLA said this week he is negotiating with private hospitals to take in detainees needing pretrial psychiatric assessments because public hospitals aren’t coping. Chris Barron asked him …

Could we see private sector involvement in other areas where public hospitals are not coping?

Definitely. We did this at the height of the pandemic. The only thing we have not been able to hammer out is the cost.

Given the state of maternity wards at public hospitals, do you see scope for outsourcing that function to the private sector as well?

I wouldn’t regard it as outsourcing, but I would look at a possible collaboration where if we don’t have capacity we could transfer patients into a private facility provided the costs are manageable.

Is this why more than 900 newborns have died from “avoidable incidents” at Chris Hani Baragwanath alone over the past three years?

No, no, it’s over 10 years.

Between 2020 and 2022, according to a written reply from the Gauteng health MEC to a question in the legislature.

It’s difficult for me to say when I don’t know what those avoidable incidents are. I know that Chris Hani Bara deals with high volumes.

Are they dying because critical staff vacancies are not being filled?

It’s not just one factor. Newborn babies are susceptible to cross-infection. Then, of course, staffing is an issue.

Would you agree that unfilled staff vacancies at public hospitals is a national crisis?

As to whether you raise it to the level of a crisis would be a subjective definition, but it is a major challenge.

At Kuruman District Hospital maternity ward in the Northern Cape, three midwives are looking after 53 patients. Wouldn’t you call that a crisis?

I would need to check whether they’re saying it is because of budgetary constraints that they can’t fill midwife positions or that they can’t find midwives.

Didn’t you tell parliament that budgetary constraints were behind unfilled vacancies?

Yes.

Would you agree that these budgetary constraints are worsened by mismanagement, inadequate administrative systems, corruption?

I would say multiple factors play a role. Even when there’s good leadership you will not get optimal outcomes.

Would you agree there are many examples of CEOs who are not fit for purpose? Why aren’t they held to account?

We also have good CEOs.

Why are CEOs at hospitals such as Rahima Moosa who are clearly not fit for purpose not held accountable?

We’re working with our MECs. If you look at Rahima Moosa, that CEO has been removed.

After many years and copious evidence about the damage she was doing?

As the ombud’s report states she was not suitable for that position from the start so I don’t know why she was appointed.

Wasn’t she appointed by one of your predecessors?

A national minister can’t appoint a CEO of a hospital.

Isn’t 90% of your budget transferred to the provinces?

That’s true.

So shouldn’t you be monitoring their performance more closely?

We do, but in terms of the constitution and the law, operational details are managed at provincial level.

That doesn’t seem to be working, does it?

Well, that’s our constitutional system.